President Muhammadu Buhari’s anti-corruption is drawing support from unexpected quarters – the opposition Peoples Democratic Party (PDP).
Ogbemudia’s statement came on the heels of the President’s claim, last week, that his administration had uncovered some of the banks in which the treasury looters stashed the stolen funds.
Effort to recover the funds was a key leg of Buhari’s recent visit to the United States (US) where he met President Barack Obama and senior American officials to solicit their cooperation, and told his guests that about $150 billion had been stolen from Nigeria over the last four years, especially from the oil industry where transparency is significantly lacking.
Governor Adams Oshiomhole of Edo State, who was on the US trip, followed it up, quoting an unnamed official of the American government as saying a minister under the Jonathan administration stole $6 billion.
“All the information we read in the papers, if it is correct that some people looted the treasury under Jonathan, then they should be brought to book. If they are convicted, they will, certainly, go to jail”, Ogbemudia, also a retired army general, told Sunday Vanguard in an interview.
But he had a caveat: All the allegations of corruption against the Jonathan administration officials should be properly investigated, to ensure the innocent is not unduly labeled a thief.
The PDP leader also spoke on the search for Oshiomhole’s successor, the National Assembly crisis and the war against Boko Haram, among other issues. Excerpts:
How is the Edo Mass Movement you launched to search for a credible successor to Gov. Oshiomhole doing?
Edo Mass Movement is in top form, it is in every ward, local government and senatorial district in the state. At the appropriate time, Edo Mass Movement will show what it is capable of doing at the 2016 gubernatorial election. We did say the other time that we will support any party that has a good candidate. And if a party produces a candidate that does not meet our standard, we will look elsewhere for a credible one.
What we are going to do is that once a political party comes up with its own candidate, we will invite the candidate for a chat, but if in his wisdom he thinks he does not need us, no problem. If he comes, we will interview him and see what he is capable of doing, ensure that he has a good background, that he will not let the people down. This is because we don’t want anybody that comes after Oshiomhole to mess up the state. The media should help us make sure that when political parties are deciding their candidates, they should take into consideration some of the issues we have raised.
Are you looking at the issue of zoning of the governorship to a particular district?
We will not be zoning , we will only interview those that are available. The party has the responsibility of zoning, not EMM because we don’t have the mandate. For example, if ten people come to us and say they are interested in the governorship, we will sit down and chat; at the end of it all, we will make recommendation to the executive of EMM.
But, are you still a member of the PDP?
Yes I am.
Supposing you find a credible candidate, may be from APGA or APC, will your group endorse that person as the candidate?
If I find any credible candidate from any party, I will recommend to the executive of EMM to inform the people, our supporters and members to assist that party.
But, won’t your party accuse you of anti-party?
Well, we have not defined yet what is anti-party activity; once we define it, I will limit myself to it. The definition has not been brought to my knowledge.
What kind of governor are you searching for?
A remarkable man, a man who thinks of others, just like the current governor, Oshiomhole. One who sees himself as a servant and is prepared to justify his election.
But there is this fear in some quarters that this group may be hijacked by rich guber aspirants?
(Laughter) It is not impossible but it is going to be difficult. I alone don’t make up EMM but we will ensure that does not happen. Now that everybody knows that votes count, they have to defend their votes and give it to whoever they think will appreciate it and will do exactly what he says he is going to do.
Do you have any arrangement with the governor on this issue?
The governor is the leader of this state and, therefore, we will do nothing that will upset his own plans. So we will continue to keep in touch with him.
So what are your expectations in the 2016 guber race in Edo?
We want the election of next year to set a good example on how a state can conduct election without leaving emotional scars. Everybody has to ensure towards peace and we want a transparent election; we don’t want interference from outside, those who are not supposed to take part should not be involved.
We are aware that your party, the PDP, has zoned their guber ticket to Edo South. We also learnt the APC is doing same thing. How will the EMM come into this situation?
If it is true that the PDP zoned the governorship to Edo South and APC is likely to do same thing, the job of EMM is to see which of the two can represent the interest of the state better, then we will support it. If those two are not satisfactory, then we will put up our own candidate, using another political party.
Many people have accused President Buhari’s administration of being slow. Do you feel the same way?
My impression is that those who are saying it have my sympathy because they have never run government before. If they had been in government, they would have known how difficult it is to put together a sincere administration. Buhari is laying the foundation for a good take off. I know he has not appointed Ministers but Ministers are meant to help the President and, if the President wants to appoint a Minister, he does that for specific purpose. Those blaming him are aware that he said he was going to reduce the Ministries, he has to reduce them first and look for technocrats who can deliver the goods for him. So this issue that he is slow is rubbish because, tomorrow, if he fails to perform, the same people will blame him. And I know Buhari, he cannot afford to fail Nigerians; so let’s give him a chance.
Some of the Ministers who served under the administration of President Goodluck Jonathan have been accused of looting the treasury. Are you comfortable with that, being a leader of the former ruling party?
All the information we read in the papers, if it is correct that some people looted the national treasury under Jonathan, then they should be brought to book. If they are convicted they will certainly, go to jail. But you cannot do that unless you investigate properly; so the Buhari regime should spend time to investigate and not to announce first that a man is a thief only to find out that he is not guilty.
That will not help. Jonathan once described bribery and corruption as petty thief; if that is the new definition, let us see. This is the first time APC is in government; therefore, all the theories that they have been propounding along the line, this is the time to test them and it will take them time to assemble sufficient evidence of their genuine readiness to govern. I give them one year to prepare and three years to execute. If at the end of four years they encourage the PDP to come back, that will be good.
The EFCC suddenly started biting and we also heard that our refineries will soon start operating in full capacity. How come all these started happening during Buhari’s administration?
Every society, the way the people behave is the evidence of the type of leadership it has. It is a reflection of the quality of the leadership in that nation. If under the last government, the EFCC did not have sufficient urge to act, then we should know why. Now, no body is urging them on and they are working. I think they will continue to do so until somebody stops them. We are waiting for evidence amid all the rumours; we are waiting to hear that so so person who stole N10billion, is in custody or he has returned N9billion. It is not sufficient to suspect, you must have concrete evidence because, for too long, people have been suspected and called bad names when in fact they didn’t know anything about what they were being accused of.
Do you approve of the calibre of the Service Chiefs appointed by the President will end Boko Haram and his strategies to fight insurgency?
The sequence of events that have taken place since they started is the right step in the right direction. But our prayer is that the officers assigned to be fighting should have sufficient pressure and sufficient understanding to be able to pursue the objective. Fighting Boko Haram is not a war; if it were a war, all you need to do is to drop bombs all over the place, but that is not allowed; so you have to go in and fetch the individuals out and deal with them. But what is more important is the job of the intelligence unit, the operatives; they should go out and identify the man who is supplying arms to Boko Haram.
The Boko Haram people are using weapons, arms and ammunition and they waste the ammunition and replace them after they fire. So they must be buying it from somebody. Which bank is opening the LPO for them or Letter of Credit, or which port are they discharging the arms, or to which airport is the plane bringing the ammunition land. The intelligent unit should find out all these and, once they find the man who is paying the boys, who is supplying the arms, then the war will be over. But if they allow the man to be hiding, resting, then we are in trouble.
There is also this information that when the Boko Haram boys have worked till the end of the month, the leaders organize them to be shot so that they will not get salaries. The person sponsoring these people is a human being, he is a Nigerian, he will be found. If the person is not found, when the source of the fund is exhausted, there will be nothing left.
How optimistic are you that the Chibok girls will be found?
I am very skeptical about that, but if they are found, they will never be the same again. A lot of transformation may have taken place. Some people also alleged that they could have turned them to suicide bombers, but it depends on the orientation. What people call suicide bombers is this: they hire a girl and wrap her with bombs and tell her to walk towards a particular place. They will not tell the girl she will die. The man who will detonate that bomb will be monitoring the girl, when he feels she has gotten to the centre of the crowd, then he detonates the bomb. The little girl does not know what they want her to do until she goes into flames. The people involved in such operations are the ones our intelligence people should be looking for.
They are easy to reach if they go round Burukutu bars and restaurants; such people, when they are drunk, they will start vomiting things to people; that is how we used to arrest such people. I believe that our troops need to work harder, not necessarily fighting, but on intelligence. Girls are better in collecting such information. I know the army has its own intelligence, but the Department of State Security is the one saddled with this responsibility to fish out people planting bombs through information. The army does only military intelligence, but the DSS deals more with civilians who are perpetrating this evil.
What is your take on the lingering leadership crisis in the Senate? The House of Reps has been able to resolve its own, but that of the Senate is still there. What is the way forward?
First, I believe that the way they make their bed is how they will sleep on it. A political party of substance gives instructions to its members. Many years back, many people who were picked to contest elections where made to sign undated resignation letter; so if they misbehave, you just date it.
By the time they start explaining that it was not yesterday they signed it, it is already too late. Because political parties don’t do it that way, then these people have the right to do what they like. They think they are supposed to be independent of the executive and the judiciary, but then the party which put them forward to contest the election must have a say on what they do. So it is wrong for the National Assembly members to think they are completely independent of the political parties that brought them in. In NPN days, I was a member and they put me forward to contest election.
On a D-Day, the Chairman of the party called me to his office and gave me a run down of what I was going to meet and that these are the instructions of the party. The Commissioners, these are what they should do, the Permanent Secretaries, do this and so on.
And I looked at it and said there was no problem. I signed it. When we won, I was reminded that this is what I should be doing and I kept to the instruction, there was no argument. But maybe if I had on that occasion started selecting people on my own, maybe the party would have called me to order. Then everybody respected the Chairman of the party, his words were regarded as the law. So I think the APC leadership should meet more regularly, allow the status quo right now to remain with some modifications. And the party should re-organize itself and get every member of the National Assembly under the APC to sign a document that they will obey the instructions of the party. Whoever says he will not do it, expel him immediately.
Jail those who looted during Jonathan"s administration - Ogbemudia tells Buhari
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