I’ll need a jet to campaign for any presidential candidate - Dan Nwanywanwu

In this interview with OLUSOLA FABIYI and ADE ADESOMOJU, pioneer and outgoing National Chairman of the Labour Party, Chief Dan Nwanywanwu, spoke on the alleged plan by Governor Olusegun Mimiko of Ondo State to leave the party for the Peoples Democratic Party and why his party will support President Goodluck Jonathan’s second term bid

Outgoing National Chairman of the Labour Party, Chief Dan Nwanywanwu

Why is the constitution of the Labour Party made so loose that there is no tenure for the chairman and other elected officers?

It was a deliberate action by the convention in 2009. In fact, that was the issue that was vastly debated by delegates at the convention. They said we should keep building the party and as people kept performing very well in the party, we would keep re-electing them until such a time when we had stabilised our structures and our activities, we could then put a time limit. And in any case, it is not government appointment.

When is the party going to be ripe for tenured offices?

That will be the business of the party. Maybe in the next convention, they may look at it again and say ‘OK, we have put the foundation in place, let us do this.’ I served two tenures and I feel I don’t need it again, that’s why I’m leaving. If I had wanted to do the third term, I would have won 80 per cent.

Some are of the view that you are leaving now because the fortune of the party is dwindling?

No. To the contrary, the fortune of the party is going up. Why is it dwindling? Any evidence?

You couldn’t win in Anambra State, you lost in Osun State, and the only governor you have is rumoured to be going to the Peoples Democratic Party.

No, the fact that we didn’t win in one doesn’t mean we won’t win in another. The All Progressives Congress lost in Ekiti, it won in Osun. Maybe where we will win is still coming. APC lost a sitting governor in Ekiti, another party won. It won Osun, maybe our own time to win is coming in 2015. So, it is not a question of losing here, and there. Yes, you may start with the areas that you are weak. By the time you get into the main election, you will now see the areas you are strong and those are the areas you will clear. So the party is very strong. The party is strengthening its structures. Nigerian workers are now fully committed to the party. You saw the President of the Nigerian Labour Congress, you saw the General-Secretary, you saw the President of the Trade Union Congress at our NEC meeting, you saw the General-Secretary of the TUC. So we are moving for the total mobilisation of the Nigerian people towards the next election.

When you heard that the Governor of Ondo State, Dr. Olusegun Mimiko, was going to defect, how did you feel?

I have heard so many rumours on that. The first time I heard a rumour about it was immediately after the inauguration in 2009. As we were leaving the podium, I heard that he was going to ACN (the defunct Action Congress of Nigeria). I was confronted by journalists and I said he was going nowhere. They said again that he was going to PDP. So these rumours have been there. I’m not foreclosing his defection. I’m not speaking for him, but this rumour has been in the mill since 2009.

What I can tell you is that as of now, as I am talking to you, Governor Mimiko is a governor of the Labour Party and that was why you saw him in the NEC meeting of the party yesterday (September 10). It is never known to be the practice that the governors of other political parties attend NEC meetings of other political parties. The day he leaves the party, you won’t see him in the NEC. So that was why I made the explanation yesterday – he was there live and direct – and I put those questions to him and he answered.

So, if he eventually defects, will you be disappointed?

Why not wait until that happens? Why will I react to something that has not happened? Let it happen before you see my reaction. Until a woman delivers, she is still pregnant.

But you can do scanning to know the kind of clothes to buy.

No, we are not talking about sex. In fact, baby clothing has no sex. Forget about this modern thing of putting colours; when you are buying baby clothes, you buy them without considering the sex, because they wear the same thing until they are some months old.

So of what essence are the meetings the governor has been having with PDP chiefs both in the state and at the federal level?

I have not been attending such meetings as alleged and I am not aware. So I cannot comment on meetings I was not privy to or did not attend.

Why has the Labour Party refused to have presidential candidates? Are you planning to have one in 2015?

You are asking me a wrong question. Labour Party has never refused to have a presidential candidate. We do not manufacture presidential candidates. It is not like going to the factory to produce an object. Nigerians believe that they can only win presidential election when they join big parties with money. The last time, some people came, and when we asked them to pay nomination fee, they could not. They crashed out and attempted to blackmail the party.

Are you talking about Dele Momodu?

I’m not talking about anybody but I’m telling you the summary of what happened during the last presidential election. I don’t understand why someone could think he could wake up one day and contest for the presidency of Nigeria. Presidency of Nigeria is not for small boys. If you don’t have money, you must have people who will put down the money for you to be able to move from one state to the other, from one local government to the other, you cannot trek. It requires money. You have to open offices. In the riverine areas, you need boats to be hired and chartered. You don’t even have money for nomination fee and you want to contest for Presidency. Labour Party will not give ticket to such characters, who will go for presidential election and score 1,000 votes in a country of 170 million people. Such result in an election reduces the fortune of the party. I mean such result brings down the prospect of the party.

We heard the nomination fee was too high.

N10m was too high? For somebody who wants to be President of Nigeria; somebody that will drag the party up and down and do things on his own? N10m is too high? That person should go and run for councillorship or chairmanship position of a local government. I’m not sure it won’t reach N20m this year.

Why did you say so, especially for a ‘room and parlour’ party like your own?

Presidential election all over the world, whether in a communist society or capitalist society, is not a tea party. Take for example, in 2007, we paid agents N2,000 per polling unit, where we contested elections. In a presidential election, all parts of Nigeria constitute your constituency. We have 120,000 polling units and If you go by that N2,000 which is no longer realistic – in the last election, some parties paid N20,000, some paid N50,000 – if you go by that N2,000, it means a week to election, you will put down N240m just for agents alone who are there to protect your votes. And yet, there was someone who said N10m for nomination form was too much. You are nothing but a jester, who is not in any position to contest election. Presidential election in Nigeria is not for small boys. You must have the ways and the means to execute your plans. If you want to drag me out for campaign, you have to charter a jet permanently. If we are going for campaigns, state by state – there are times we will go to two or three states in a day – you must put a jet in my office for myself, officers of the party and yourself so that we can go to Osun, fly to Oyo, fly to Ondo and come back to Kwara. We can’t do that by road. That’s why I said presidential election is not for small boys.

That means the poor can never be president in this country?

The poor can be president of Nigeria. After all, there has never been any president in Nigeria that was very rich before he became president. But you must have backers who believe in you. Before you know it, they provide 100 vehicles. They may not give you money, some may pay for jet for one month. These are investments in candidates they trust and believe in. So it is not a question of I just want to run. You want to make mockery of a political party just as when we had 52 political parties – every Tom, Dick and Harry would go and obtain a form and submit to the Independent National Electoral Commission. They would now make the ballot papers so long that the logos of political parties cannot even be seen.

How did President Goodluck Jonathan become the candidate of the LP in 2011?

When we did not have a candidate, President Jonathan picked his phone and called me to ask for my support. I only asked him to give me time to discuss with my governor. We came back to the National Executive Council meeting, presented the request to them and they endorsed him because we didn’t see ourselves as not being part and parcel of making the Nigerian president since we didn’t have a presidential candidate.

Will you still be expecting his call as the 2015 election draws near?

In fact, I’m expecting a presidential candidate. If you have the ways and means, why not come and pick your form?

I mean are you still expecting the call of Mr. President?

No! I don’t like people to anticipate me.

Your governor said on September 10 that if the President declared, he was going to support him.

He is entitled to that opinion. I can also say the same thing.

Will that not amount to an anti-party activity when your party has not foreclosed having a presidential candidate?

No, no, no, if the party has a presidential candidate, and a governor is in the party, the governor will be part and parcel of the making of the presidential candidate. So, you cannot have a presidential candidate and you support another candidate.

But will the governor’s pronouncement not discourage anybody who intends to run on the platform of the party?

No, you are looking at the governor as the party.

Yes, because you have said both of you are the faces of the party?

Yes, but I have not said so (supporting Jonathan for 2015 if he declares). Governance at the state level is different from political party administration. Governor Mimiko never interferes with what we do here. He has never interfered. So the issue of whether he will support Jonathan is not something we should cry about now, it is what he is entitled to. Then, if you can get us a presidential candidate who has the ways and means, let him come, you will be shocked that we will fly a presidential candidate. But if we don’t have, the Labour Party will be part and parcel of the making of the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

The President is of the PDP. You support him at the federal level, but at the state level in Ondo State, where your party is ruling, you are not friends with the President’s party. How is Labour Party able to reconcile the contradiction?

How do you mean?

For instance at the last governorship election in Ondo State?

You see, a political party must participate in general elections. If a political party doesn’t participate in elections, the party becomes a non-governmental organisation. In Edo during Adams Oshiomhole’s election, we had a candidate strategically, but we moved all our arsenal to support Oshiomhole. Does that give you a clue? In fact, our candidate in that election was Oshiomhole’s cousin. That was strategic. So, most of these things you non-politicians see may not be how they are.

You had an agreement with Oshiomhole to support him, what was the condition for the agreement?

There was no agreement. It was just because Oshimhole is from our constituency (Labour). For his second tenure, there was no agreement.

You are referring to 2007.

Yes, it was an agreement that was truncated by the ACN and that affected our relationship. In actual fact, we should be in the same boat, but it seems we can never be. Those of us who have labour background don’t deal with people we cannot trust.

That means Oshiomhole as a person betrayed the Labour Party?

Well, it was the party, not Oshiomhole. Let me tell you, there are things the governor cannot do without the approval of the party or if those things are done, they will see it as anti-party. Maybe we were naïve when we entered into that agreement. But we were looking at a comrade who was part and parcel of our constituency. We were trying to bring working people into positions, then we fell into that trap and we had nothing to show for it.

What were the terms of the agreement?

Power sharing, recognition. Labour Party had no appointments or any benefit that came to the party as a result of the agreement.

It was the governor that had the power to make appointments, yet you blamed ACN.

It was the party that said no. You see, this idea of winner takes-all is what is creating tension in the land. When I made that comment years ago, Lai Mohammed called me and said this and that, and I asked him, did I lie? He said no but I should not have said that and I said why? You said you are a student of Obafemi Awolowo, I’m also a student of Obafemi Awolowo. Awolowo said in politics, there is no other name to call a thief other than a thief. He kept quiet. We were betrayed. We were cheated. But we don’t cry over spilt milk.

But the defunct ACN claimed the Labour Party also betrayed it in Ondo State. The party leaders said there was an agreement that Governor Mimiko was going to defect to ACN.

Let them produce such agreement, I have my own agreement. I have listened to it in the press some two to three years ago. There was no agreement. I am telling you authoritatively, there was no agreement. Even those who claim that they put money in Mimiko’s victory did not put a kobo. I have the register of contributors to Mimiko’s campaign. They did not. They contributed nothing.

Didn’t they also contribute to the prosecution of Mimiko’s petition at the tribunal?

Up till now, we still owe the lawyers. We still owe Wole Olanipekun and co.

Even for the 2007 case?

Yes, that’s what I’m saying, because we can’t just take the state money to pay for the governor’s petition.

How were you able to secure his (Olanipekun’s) legal service again in 2013 if you had not fully paid him for the 2007 case?

They are friends. Wole Olanipekun, Senior Advocate of Nigeria, is a personal friend of Mimiko. You don’t abandon your friend because he has not paid you your bills.

The Labour Party and Governor Mimiko have always been accused by the PDP in Ondo State of truncating its chance of getting federal appointments in President Jonathan’s administration.

Mention one that we truncated. They just make loose statements. Anything I have said here, I gave you examples. I’m somebody who believe in empiricism. I don’t just talk because I want to get people to clap for me. They should have mentioned one instance where an appointment was meant for them and we took it. Let them mention one. There are noisemakers in the state who can say anything they like. They are the same people who have seen the man’s good and they are now trying to embrace him, running after him. Let us not listen to whatever anybody says.

We have heard you say you were offered N500m to truncate the victory of Governor Mimiko in 2007. Is it true?

I don’t tell lies when I’m facing the public. Even in my private life, I don’t. I try as much as possible to represent the truth.

How did it happen? Did it come from the PDP or APC?

Use your tongue to count your teeth.

You recently described President Jonathan as the most troubled President Nigeria has ever had. Why did you say so?

President Jonathan is the most troubled president, the most abused president, the most insulted president Nigeria ever had, and above all, he is the most patient president we ever had. Right from the day President Jonathan assumed office as Acting President, he has never had peace. I’m saying something that you know, I’m not fabricating. President Jonathan has never had peace. It’s been either somebody is killed here or there is a bombing there or they bombed one church and as he is going there, they are bombing another mosque. He has never had peace.

If you are saying he has never had peace, don’t you think it is time for him to go home and rest?

You see, if I have something like that in this place and I know why they are doing it, I will stick to my gun to prove a point that treachery does not pay. Your style may be different, as somebody who comes from a core trade union background, I know treachery, manoeuvering, vendetta do not pay. So, if I find myself in that situation, I will exhaust all my opportunities. If heaven wants to fall, let heaven fall, I will put enough men to hold heaven.

Your party is supposed to be in opposition, and is this not supposed to be an opportunity for you to put forward a presidential candidate?

If I’m in the opposition, it doesn’t mean that I have to be stupid. Opposition doesn’t mean stupidity. Opposition doesn’t mean you have to abuse your leaders. If opposition means stupidity, I don’t want to be one. As opposition, you have to rationalise your thoughts and your views in the best interest of the country.

There must be patriotic content in everything that you do. Opposition doesn’t mean stupidity or foolishness. What we are seeing today is stupid and foolish opposition. There is nothing done by the authorities that is right. Are these the people you are going to hand over Nigeria to? Such people can never lead Nigeria in our lifetime because they don’t have the capacity. They are looking for power for other reasons other than governance and enhancing the fortunes of the country.

You seem to be so angry with the APC

I didn’t mention any party.

Don’t you think the kind of support your party is giving President Jonathan, who belongs to another party, is only possible because your party is lacking in definite ideology, which seems to be the disease plaguing all political parties in Nigeria?

With the way you are asking me questions, it seems you belong to that opposition that you are referring me to because you appear to be concentrating so much on opposition and Jonathan. All the questions you are asking me relate to why I should not support him. You are rationalising why I should not support him.

I’m asking you questions.

No, you are asking the wrong questions. I have my reasons for supporting one person or the other.

You or your party?

My party also has its reason for supporting whoever it wants. It was reported that my good friend, Dele Momodu, went to Surulere to vote in a presidential election. You journalists reported that he went with his wife and four other members of his household. You people reported that he had one vote. I’m quoting your reports, which means that other members of his household did not vote for him. Did he divorce his wife and others when he got home? It’s freedom of choice. Everybody has his freedom. And that is why we are preaching that if you have your freedom, why do you think I should not have mine? That is part of the problems of the country

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I’ll need a jet to campaign for any presidential candidate - Dan Nwanywanwu