ABA—The youth wing of the pan Igbo socio -cultural organization, Ohanaeze Ndigbo has commended the former military heads of state, General Ibrahim Babangida and General Yakubu Gowon over their support for the election of a Nigerian president of Igbo extraction.
Former President Ibrahim Babangida
Babangida had said in an interview that he will back an Igbo for the presidential seat in 2019 if he finds a credible personality while Gowon had openly canvassed for an Igbo president to preside over the affairs of Nigeria in the nearest future.
National President of Ohanaeze Ndigbo youth wing, Mazi Okechukwu Isiguzoro, in an interview with Vanguard, described the two former leaders as the conscience of the nation, stressing that their support for Igbo presidency had given Ndigbo hope that they would find greater accommodation within a united Nigeria.
He explained that an Igbo presidency would finally heal the scars left by the unfortunate civil war and the marginalization of Ndigbo in the affairs of the nation.
“Ohanaeze youths commended the two former military heads of state for their love for the unity of Nigeria through their support for a Nigerian President of Igbo extraction.
“A Nigerian President of Igbo extraction is desirable in 2019 after President Muhammadu Buhari. An Igbo presidency will boost the unity of Nigeria. Former President Ibrahim Babangida said he will back an Igbo if he finds one; but we assured him and other Nigerians that Ndigbo have credible personalities who have the capacity to govern Nigeria.”
Isiguzoro urged political parties to zone their presidential candidates to the South East and called on Ndigbo to support Buhari’s administration.
“If we can get Senator Ike Ekeremadu as a PDP presidential candidate and Rochas Okorcocha as the APC presidential candidate in 2019, it will end the cries of marginalization including protests by Biafra agitators.”
Former US Assistant Secretary of State on African Affairs Ambassador Herman Cohen has written his second book: The Mind of the African Strongman: Conversations with Dictators, Statesmen and Father Figures. Cohen had earlier brokered the Eriterian-Ethiopian war in1991, the conflicts in Angola and Mozambique as well as the Liberian Crisis that gave birth to ECOMOG, while he was working in the State Department under Bush One. This current update on his African odyssey is anchored on his encounter with well over 15 African Heads of State including Nigeria’s former military president General Ibrahim Babangida. NDUKA NWOSU who had an earlier encounter with Cohen reports.
Ambassador Herman Cohen
When he was appointed Assistant Secretary of State between 1989 and 1993 under George Bush One, Ambassador Herman Cohen was the point man in the US State Department for African Policy. In that capacity, he met many African Heads of State including Nigeria’s military president General Ibrahim Babangida.
Those meetings and conversations have produced a book: The Mind of the African Strongman: Conversations with Dictators, Statesmen and Father Figures. Sometime last year in Washington DC when this writer had an encounter with Ambassador Cohen whose founding partnership-Cohen and Woods has deep interests in the Nigerian power sector, the 83 year old veteran of the US Civil Service, hinted he was going to launch this book last February. Coming a few months late behind schedule, Cohen’s book, which by the way is not his first, will certainly not be the last, age notwithstanding, because at 83 Cohen enjoys the strength and regimen of a man who still has a place in the general scheme of things; and as long as his Muse keeps pouring an inky rain into his pen, his literary ship is yet to slip its mooring.
Surely this author’s seasonal monsoon rain of profiling issues of concern to the African continent is not over yet. As the saying goes among the people of Western Samoa, that from the direction of the wind, you can tell a story from the beginning, Cohen himself sets the stage for the great voyage. He reminds his audience his main interest is still deployed in research and writing while consulting and giving advice to some African governments as well as helping them navigate Washington, a mandate that has earned him the cognomen ’Doyen of African Affairs.’ According to Cohen who during his active days advised well over 15 African heads of state, many ambassadors from these countries working in Washington need his kind of support to get things done but then, he laments, ”I am fading out of business but I will still do consulting.”
Not to worry, Cohen will be here with us much longer than expected because with his beautiful and loving French wife Suzanne by his side he is assured of his usual healthy gourmet food. “Suzanne and I got married in 1957 while I was working in France for my first overseas posting. We remain happily married with two nice children Marc, 51 and Alain 47, huge successes in their business endeavour.
Indeed Cohen’s earlier book, ‘Intervening in Africa: Superpower Peacemaking in a Troubled Continent (Studies in Diplomacy)’ showcased on bookstands October 6, 2000 will be a good buy for these diplomats while the update exposes the evolving nature of democracy in Africa and how Africa’s present strongmen can free their minds from a corruption free administration for their countries to be unshackled from the chain of poverty, disease and endemic dependency from the developed world.
This recent update on the mind of Africa’s strongmen is already making waves among Cohen’s fellow veterans angling for space in the long column of commentaries. John Hirsch, Senior Advisor, International Peace Institute and former US Ambassador to Sierra Leone had this to say on the book: “Cohen’s cogently argued analysis of Africa’s first generation of post-colonial leaders will provide both experienced African hands and new readers useful insights into the major transitions underway in Africa and the continually evolving US role there.” Aside book writing on Africa, its problems and the way forward, Cohen, a former professor at John Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies makes regular appearances as an analyst on Al-Jazeera, the BBC, the CBC, PBS News Hour, NPR, Radio France Internationale, and the Voice of America discussing Africa and African affairs among other issues that hold his interest. On the on-going discourse J. Peter Pham, Director, Atlantic Council Africa Center concludes that there are few who match Hank Cohen in terms of the length and breadth of his experience in and engagement with Africa, both within government and, subsequently, in the private sector. Pham no doubt has been following Cohen & Woods and its efforts to help US businesses exploit the opportunity of partnering with African governments and their businessmen. One such business deal that was opened, sealed and concluded by Cohen & Woods happens to be with Contour Global a US power company that provides Coca Cola Nigeria with its CHP. Cohen’s mind, he reveals, is powered by his belief in the future of Africa “and the leader of that future will be Nigeria.” Which is why this review will be mostly focused on Africa’s leading economy, the mind of one of its very strongmen Ibrahim Babangida whom Cohen had so much interaction with especially during the Liberian crisis.
Beyond this Cohen’s interest in the progress of the African continent was central in his being a co-founder of the very proactive corporate Council for Africa (CCA) which with the American Chamber of commerce jointly hosted President Muhammadu Buhari during his state visit to the US.
A founding member of the CCA, Cohen on the business side, says Contour Global and many American power companies are keen on partnering with Nigerian investors in the power sector with increased availability of
Pham adds that even those who find themselves at disagreement with one or another of the author’s conclusions will nevertheless find the stories of his dealings with some of the most famous (and infamous) African leaders of the period fascinating and the insights of these historical figures which he recounts an invaluable resource.”
For Kenneth L. Brown, former U.S. Ambassador to Cote d’Ivoire, Ghana, and Republic of Congo and President, Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training, Cohen’s experience in Africa and access to a wide array of historic African leaders are unparalleled. “This unique book provides important lessons from the continent’s past and insights for its future.”
Edward Marks, retired Minister Counsellor of the US Foreign Service says Cohen’s book is evidence that individuals often do make a difference and that based upon his unrivaled experience as an American diplomat in Africa, the author’s collection of conversations with Africa’s Big Men “is invaluable to anyone interested in that continent and its tumultuous modern history.” But Nigeria’s own Ahmadu Abubakar a lawyer and expert on sub-Saharan Africa development issues adds his voice: “Secretary Cohen is a master story teller who has made easier for Africans to form a broad historical perspective through his revealing tales about their rulers.”
Unlike the much expected book, which turned out to be nothing but a book, Cohen’s recall of his conversations with most of the men who have impoverished their African kinsmen and a few that showed them the light, has not failed to impress.
The author reminds his reader he knew many of these leaders personally because of his high position in the State Department; “I had private meetings with them. I was recounting what they said to me. I was trying to show the African approach to development and relations with the rest of the world. French speaking, I had Houphet Boigny of Cote de’Ivoire, Theodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo of Equitorial Guinea, and Leopold Sedar Senghor of Senegal; in the military I had Mobutu Sese Seko, Ibrahim Babangida of Nigeria and Siad Barre of Somalia. English speaking, I had Kaunda, Nelson Mandela of South Africa, Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and de Klerk of South Africa.”
Ambassador John Campbell a well-known friend of Nigeria takes the lead and with tantalizing marketing skills he persuades the reader that Cohen “has written a fascinating and clear-eyed book…a great read – I did so in a single sitting because I could not put it down.”
As Campbell puts it, Cohen’s interlocutors including more than sixteen African heads of state, range from Leopold Senghor to Nelson Mandela and F.W. de Klerk.
Cohen, Campbell observes, seeks to address the question of why fifty years after independence, African countries continue to do relatively poorly. “His hypotheses are subtle and do not lend themselves to summary in a blog post. But, they involve leadership failures and the degree to which Africa “…to a great extent continues to be a prisoner of its cultural history. The book is a great read – I did so in a single sitting because I could not put it down.”
While Campbell’s favorite in the series of conversations Cohen had with “Africa’s big men,” is Albertina Sisulu, the wife of the great anti-apartheid crusader Walter Sisulu, the writer’s take remains Nigeria and her own Anglophone big men. Regarding his encounters between 1989 and 1993 with military President Ibrahim Babangida, Cohen said crisis prone Liberia was the issue and the Nigerian leader was the US point man in resolving the conflict through the DCOMOG. “He was very important to our policy because he was central to the creation of ECOMOG, which intervened in the war in Liberia with US assistance. Apart from that we did not deal with the internal affairs of the country; we stayed out of that and focused on the security of West Africa.
“We left office about the same time. I joined the World Bank and was for five years until 2000, responsible for the promotion of good governance in Africa, it was an intra-governmental organisation and I had them all over Africa. The members were all governments from Africa and donor countries. I had contact with him and General Olusegun Obasanjo who made frequent presence in my conferences on good governance.
As a military leader, Cohen says Babangida administered the country quite well, “which was unusual of a military leader. He also brought about a very good election also unusual of military leaders.” Nigerians would argue Cohen’s take on June 12 which was seen as rape on democracy when the election MKO Abiola was adjudged to have won was scuttled by Babangida and his military junta.
When reminded he would have a problem there, Cohen did not back down but added: “If it is because the election was cancelled, well, I never had a conversation with him to tell me why the election was cancelled but I pointed out that in April 1993 during my last month in office in Washington, I was visited by two Nigerian Generals whose names I cannot mention because they are still alive, who told me that the two candidates-Abiola and Tofa were unacceptable to the military because they were a couple of jokers. That is the record.”
So how was the election good when it was cancelled? Cohen is asked. His response: “It was good up to the point the votes were counted and one of them was the winner. A winner emerged. It was clear nobody said there was cheating or that the election was rigged.
“But the result was only leaked because the electoral authority was not allowed to declare a winner. At that point it was a bad election. My conclusion from what the generals told me was that the military wanted to stay in power even without General Babangida. That was the signal I got. I was frustrated at that point because I did not know what to do with the information. I assumed from then the military was planning not to allow the election to be implemented.”
Cohen’s robust discussion on corruption which General Buhari has promised to fight, back home, extends to many African leaders who have helped to impoverish their countries through a life style of avarice and squandermania. “I categorised the many forms corruption was executed or encouraged by these leaders. I said some foreign observers are fooled by different forms of corruption. A man like General Mobutu Sese Sekou of Congo was very open about his corruption. He was flamboyant on how he took people’s money to spend on himself and his family whereas in many countries it was subtle.
“President Kenneth Kaunda of Zambia for example, may not have been corrupt, he lived a simple life and people admired him for that. If you visited him, he poured the coffee for you whereas his party was very corrupt and sat on a lot of money made available to the party, the officers and members of the party. Zambia operated a one party system that tolerated no opposition. United National Independence Party (UNIP) of Zambia was very corrupt and the President never said anything about this. The same thing happened in Tanzania. Julius Nyerere was a great statesman, an intellectual admired throughout the world. He translated Julius Caesar to Swahili but his party the CCM was very corrupt and stole a lot of money. So corruption exists in Africa in varied styles.”
Specifically on Nigeria, Cohen observes the source of corruption has been the oil sector stressing this is typical of most oil producing countries like Angola and Equatorial Guinea. His conclusion: only a privatised oil sector will minimise the problem. Again this is a subject for another day because the oil sector is not the only source of corruption in Nigeria because state governors also loot and squander the collective patrimony of the people through many outlets such as security votes provided by the constitution, contract inflation and direct fingering of state treasuries running to trillions of naira. This is also true of ministers and directors of government parastatal in the system and many others who come in contact directly or indirectly with government business.
According to Cohen, in the US there are very little government owned businesses. The oil and gas sector is private sector driven noting that much of the drilling activities produced in the Gulf of Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma pay taxes to government. “They publish how much they produce and on the basis of those statistics backed with verifiable audit, they pay taxes and royalties to the state and federal governments.”
On Nigeria’s current rating and the investment climate Cohen had this to say: “The investment climate is good in the sense that investors can feel safe, that a contract can be honoured, which is the first priority for investors, that a contract with the Nigerian government or some private sector organisation will be honoured, which is not true of many African countries. Should that make it a good investment destination? The problem for many potential investors is the absence of infrastructure in many parts of Nigeria.
“For example if you have a factory in Lagos, this is good especially for quick imports and exports but as an investment destination, there is an absence of infrastructure development in many parts of the country. The transport system such as rails and roads is poor and the ports can be overcrowded; the power distribution is very poor. So infrastructure is a big problem for many investors in Nigeria. The good side is that the investment climate is good but infrastructure is a big impediment.”
“Power in particular is inhibiting investment. The national grid is very weak and needs to be upgraded; there is a shortage of gas while the distribution and transmission system needs to be upgraded. A national grid such as Nigeria’s calls for increased capacity in all directions; you have to bring power lines to communities that don’t have it and you have to bring the power to individual consumers and you have to arrange for people to pay for their consumption of power and you need to fix consumer meters.”
Cohen has always been a big supporter of President Barack Obama’s Power Africa project, which by his definition means there is a lot of money available for private investors to get loan guarantees or loan support for investments in the power sector in Africa. But, he adds, the host country must set the right environment where investors will be willing to invest. “For example Contour Gloval has many possible investments in the Gulf of Guinea area but it is waiting for gas to come. This problem persists in the entire West Coast-Cote D’Ivoire, Togo, Republic of Benin; Ghana should be getting a lot of gas now because of its oil but the question is how gas is transported to the land and brought to power plants; it should not be turned in to LNG and exported and sold abroad.”
The author notes Nigeria’s investment in the export of its liquefied natural gas was a mistake because its domestic needs currently affecting affecting the much expected increase in the needed megawatts to revolutionise the power sector, was lacking. “One of the biggest mistakes made by Nigeria was to allow the oil companies invest in LNG production and have it exported elsewhere when the gas is needed in Nigeria. Nigeria is exporting liquid financial gas all over the world when there is a big shortage of gas back home.
“This is a mistake made 50 years ago. Now I am not saying Nigeria should stop exporting LNG overseas; no, they can’t do that because the production of LNG is such a big investment but they should provide incentives for the oil companies by raising the price of gas to bring the gas to the land at a good price. This is a big investment with the set-up of pipelines. This will reduce or eliminate gas shortage,” Cohen insists.
The bigger picture, he says, is to be a player in the unfolding power sector and while waiting for gas to be made available. “We are waiting to supply power to the national grid and other companies and once the gas issue is settled, we will come into the scene.
Cohen looks into the future with positive projections for the country: “Nigeria has a brilliant future because there is so much entrepreneurial spirit among the people. In Nigeria successful entrepreneurs are considered as heroes unlike what obtains elsewhere where political leaders see you as a threat. In Nigeria no one is afraid of government, people want to invest and make profit.
“Government’s does not see investors as threats. The problem is how to set up the right conditions for increased investor participation for Nigerian investors, not foreign investors, providing infrastructure, power, gas, transportation et al.
“In other countries people are afraid to start new businesses because of harassment for non-payment of taxes. Nigeria does not have that. Business people are respected and appreciated but they have the problems of infrastructure to drive their businesses no matter where they are.”
Governor Muazu Babangida Aliyu of Niger State yesterday, took a swipe at the Adamu Muazu- led National Working Committee NWC of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, for holding on to power after leading the party to a ‘’disastrous defeat,’’ in the last general elections in the country, saying that the best and most civilised thing was to throw in the towel.
Aliyu who spoke at the commissioning of the multi -billion Naira Shiroro Bridge linking Niger and Kaduna States, however said that the loss suffered by the party at presidential level and in most states coupled with the massive defection of some members to the All Progressives Congress, APC, were not enough reasons for him to dump the party.
Also, his Jigawa State counterpart, Alhaji Sule Lamido, who spoke on the occasion said that he would not leave the PDP which he was a foundation member for tenants saying that defection was not the answer to such defeat in a democracy.
However, Governor Aliyu said, ‘‘how could you lead a party to disastrous outing in an election and you are still in that place, take the blame for the defeat by quitting and if the PDP still wants you they will beg you to stay?’’
He warned that if Muazu and his team refused to throw in the towel now ‘’the actual change will come in March 2016 when we will elect new leaders at the national convention of our party.’’
On the PDP, the two governors said that they had no plans to quit the party or float a new one in readiness for the 2019 general elections.
Aliyu who spoke first described the speculations by some people to this effect as not only misleading and without any root but mere fabrications of falsehood.
‘We are not creating a new party; we will remain in the PDP and whoever planted the story has made a mistake.
‘’We had opportunity to defect when the G7 were together but we did not because we believe that defection is not the best way to develop and entrench democracy. Whatever you see today is designed by God as it is not compulsory to be on the winning side always.
Sule Lamido, you are not floating any new party. You and your godson will remain in PDP forever. Whoever planted that story has made a mistake because for us, we had every opportunity to have decamped or defected but we did not because we know in political development, particularly in a democracy, defection is not the best way to develop and entrench democracy in any society,” Aliyu declared.
He further said the loss of presidential election by the party and the loss of many governors should be seen as a big lesson to everyone pointing out that after 16 years of being in power, we should not be annoyed neither should we show unfaithfulness’.
Former President Ibrahim Babangida has flayed what he Wednesday described as an attempt to ridicule the military institution and some of its sterling lights in the name of politics.
Former President Ibrahim Babangida
Taking note of a television documentary aired on Tuesday night on a private television network to project President Goodluck Jonathan ahead of the presidential election, Babangida lamented that the president’s backers at the same time poured calumny on some of the country’s former military rulers.
Babangida took strong objections to what he said were the negative imputations put on the integrity and services to the nation by Generals Olusegun Obasanjo, Muhammadu Buhari, himself; Ibrahim Babangida, late Sani Abacha, Abdulsalami Abubakar, and T.Y Danjuma.
Noting that the sponsors of the documentary which he described as a hate campaign were either intellectually delinquent or suffering from memory loss; or a combination of both, Babangida referred them to his leading role in the formation of the People’s Democratic Party, PDP.
He said:
“For record purposes, and without sounding immodest, the idea of a PDP that has now become the “largest party in Africa” started in my home, here in Minna. With the support of my fellow colleagues, we prepared the way for this democratic process that has now led us to where we are presently. We built the democratic infrastructure and architecture. Those who are parading themselves as democrats today, all participated in military governments. As a deliberate principle of remaining unsung, or blowing my own trumpet, I have elected over the years to maintain dignified silence on so many issues concerning Nigeria while I cultivate my access to each sitting President to pass across my advice in whatever form.
“It is on record and this is incontrovertible that the government I ran paraded some of the best brains this country can be proud of. I still remain eternally grateful to those wonderful brains who participated in our government to fashion a new roadmap for re-engineering the country. Some of our policies have remained unsurpassed till date and most of what the country enjoys today was a creation of the Military.
From primary healthcare to good roads, DFRRI, Better Life for Rural Women, housing, river basin authorities, MAMSER, new airports, agricultural development and other economic infrastructure, to mention but a few, were platforms where our interventions were felt. We achieved that much with very slim resources. If we had the several billions of dollars that are flying around today, we would have turned Nigeria to the Dubai of Africa.
“The military is an institution that is so dear to my heart. It is an institution that nurtured my growing up and my achievements in life. I am not only sold to the military institution and by extension the Nigerian state, I am betrothed to it. As a profession, retirees are bound to participate in politics and democracy as an all-inclusive process, same way that Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, Nurses, and Civil Servants get involved in it.
It is the reason why I ventured into politics in 2003 before I quit in 2010. It is the same reason why General Obasanjo participated and got elected; and now General Buhari. It is therefore very curious that promoters of President Goodluck Jonathan’s aspiration would attempt to demonize and stigmatize former military leaders and cast aspersions on them in order to malign their reputation. This is very unfair.
“Fact is; the military fought a civil war to keep this country together. What I suffer today is a consequence of the injuries I sustained during the Nigeria Civil War. I am not sure there is any patriotism that is more than that. Some of us were prepared to die for the country. The military is presently combating the dreaded Boko Haram sect to restore Nigeria’s territorial integrity. What law under a democracy forbids retired military personnel from participating in politics and presenting themselves for election? Over 90 percent of American Presidents have military background.
Leadership training is better grounded in the military than any other profession. And the military parades some of the best brains in any country, including Nigeria. In fact, some of my military students that I tutored have Doctorate Degrees. It is therefore callous, wicked, out-of-sync, cynical and a show of crass ignorance for anyone to undermine the military institution by embarking on mudslinging campaigns against former presidents and leaders of military background.
“While those campaigners are pointing their accusing fingers at us, they forget to recall that the present Director-General of the PDP Presidential Campaign Organization is actually a retired Military Officer. It is this form of demonization and stigmatization that often compels us to exhibit espirit de corps amongst ourselves in support of our military institution and colleagues when the stakes are high. As disciplined military officers, we are patriotic Nigerians and must be treated with utmost respect and decorum.
In this interview, former military president, General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida, clarifies his position on his statement suggesting that he is in support of the re-election bid of President Goodluck Jonathan. Babangida also speaks on the murder of Dele Giwa in 1986, the Interim National Government, ING, Sani Abacha’s coup and the loss of his long time companion and wife, Maryam.
IBB and Jonathan
Aired last Wednesday on Channels TV, the interview was an episode in the current affairs programme, STWK (Straight Talk With Kadaria), anchored by Kadaria Ahmed.
Excerpts:
Do you support President Jonathan’s attempt at re-election?
Firstly, I appreciate the fact that he came to visit me and, during our discussion, I found him to be a man who believes in the unity of this country and I did allude to that and I said I found him to be someone who has a very strong belief about the unity of this country.
Those of us who fought the civil war – I still carry a bullet so I have a permanent reminder in me – anything that relates to Nigeria’s unity, we get impassioned about it.
So what I said is that the President believes in the unity of this country and any other person who believes in the unity of this country should support the President to keep this country one.
So, as far as the 2015 elections are concerned, President Jonathan has your blessing
Well, as far as 2015 is concerned, all the presidential candidates – 14 of them – have my blessings.
The only difference is (and I did mention it) that I have not been able to read what they have offered to this country and I am going to do that and whoever offers what I’m looking for, I am going to vote for.
What exactly did you mean when you said that if what you read in the papers these days is anything to go by, then your administration was saintly?
I am an avid reader of Nigerian newspapers, so when I read a statement like $16billion spent trying to provide power for this country or somebody kept under his bed N300m, if what I’m reading is true, then we were angels.
Not because you did any spending or because your level of spending was less or because you didn’t touch public money?
We did have a regulation.
You can’t, for example, keep more than ‘X’ amount of money in your vault or in your safe. We followed strictly the financial regulations and now it boggles my mind how somebody could put N300m under his bed.
I once removed a governor for N300,000, because he overspent what we had given him as limit on security.
But that didn’t mean that your government was squeaky clean because there was the Okigbo report about the over $12b oil windfall that was allegedly squandered by your administration.
First of all, may his soul rest in peace (Sani Abacha). The report was from 1986 to 1994, a period of eight years. By the time the late Pius Okigbo submitted his report, he said between 1986 to 1994, $12.4b accrued to the Federal Government. Nobody could deny that. Out of that amount, he said $1.4 or thereabouts came in during the Gulf War.
But, if you had done your home work well, you would know that the war lasted three months and there was no way you could make $1.4b in three months at the rate of $12 or $10 per barrel, producing about 800,00 per day.
The government did not indict anybody, neither did the report indict anybody. He was an acknowledged economist and what he said is that ‘X’ amount of money would have accrued into the reserves.
The government had an option to either go and put the money in the bank and say it was saving it or you meet some of the demands of the situation at that time.
Considering that you ruled Nigeria for some eight years, do you take any responsibility for the state of Nigeria today?
Well, you take responsibility for anything either good or bad – that is what leadership is all about and I think so far, as far as I am concerned, I take full responsibility for what we did.
Would the June 12 issue be something that when you look back you regret?
History will one day come and apportion blames to various actors in the whole saga.
There are a lot of people today in this country who supported what we did at that time.
What was the rationale behind the annulment?
We discussed the security situation and we were worried about putting up a government that would not last.
What were the conditions that raised those concerns?
There was this security problem that was dicey and the only people who could tell you what could happen were those of us in government, we the practitioners of violence by our profession. We knew there was a high level of frustration in the society which could provide a very fertile ground for a coup d’etat.
But in the end that was what happened because …
(Cuts in) In the end we were right because we speculated rightly.
Was it a plan?
No, it couldn’t have been a plan.
Don’t forget that there was a speculation by prominent people in the country who were saying at that time that the worst civilian government was better than this contraption (Interim National Government, ING).
The reason for that question was based on what you said about the coup issue because when you left, you did not retire General Abacha, a man who had been a central player in many successful coups and you left him in charge of the army more or less. That is why I asked if it was a plan for him to take over?
When we established the ING, we wanted to give it teeth; so whoever was in power would believe that it had backing.
So it never occurred to you that he (Abacha) wanted the number one job for himself?
It never crossed my mind quite honestly.
So when he executed this coup, what did you think?
It didn’t come to me as a surprise because all of you in this country at that time gave him the wherewithal to do it. I’ve always said a coup will always succeed if there is frustration in the society and that frustration was seen and orchestrated at that time, if you remember, coming from very prominent people, that this contraption was not better than the worst civilian government, and some of us knew at that time that if a coup happened, Nigerians would jump into the streets to welcome it.
So, why didn’t you retire Abacha knowing that there was a fertile ground and you had a coup maker…
(Cuts in) If there had been pressure on the ING for an election in six months’ time, Abacha would not have found it easy to stage a coup.
Given the fact that Nigerians wanted a government they elected and not the contraption you put together, why did you find it difficult to understand why Nigerians would not line up behind it?
I tell you what happened before that contraption came about
Now you are calling it contraption by the way?
(Laughter). No I like the word. I’m very fond of that word.
At that time in the whole of this country, you can go and check it, there wasn’t a single voice that said ‘let’s take a chance with the ING, let’s give it a chance if it would work’.
But it didn’t have legitimacy because they were not soldiers and they were not elected civilians
I governed for eight years, using decree. That contraption was given a constitution and that constitution was supported by a law. It was legitimately done as is done all over the world.
You were away when the Abacha coup happened. But when you came back, did he get in touch?
We did discuss and he took his time to explain to me what happened.
Did you give him any advice on how to run government or how soon he should hand over to civilians?
Those were things which he knew very well because he had been part and parcel of the administration for eight years; he knew the political actors in the country and he went ahead to call them, explaining to them what had happened, trying to legitimize what he had done and, believe it, there were a lot of politicians who supported him because he talked to them.
Are you surprised at how his government became one that was very repressive and he became known, perhaps, as one of the worst dictators Nigeria had ever known?
Yes and no. Yes because people would see him as a military person and secondly he was a man of limited words, you could not predict him.
No, because he had worked with us, worked with other people, had a good knowledge of how the system worked, how to keep security in the country. These were things that he knew and you could not deny him those things.
In 1986, you decided that Nigeria’s status as an observer at the Organisation of Islamic Conference, OIC, should change to become a full member knowing that Nigeria has an almost equal population of Christians and Muslims.
Nigeria went into the OIC as an observer in 1973 under General Yakubu Gowon and I went in as a full member in 1986. That was a simple foreign policy decision that we took. It was a tool to enhance our foreign policy.
But the view of the ordinary Nigerian is that to be in OIC meant you were an Islamic country. And Nigeria is not an Islamic country. So why take us in there?
That has been proved wrong. Again, this is the beautiful thing about this country because people speculate a lot. As at the time we went in there, there were countries that were there which were not Islamic countries. I was quite surprised by the outrage that followed that decision because people translated it to mean that our government wanted to make Nigeria an Islamic country which is stupid. We had a Constitution which stated clearly at that time that no religion must be made superior to another.
In the years since then, as far as you know, what has been the specific benefit that we’ve got?
I think it helped us to push our foreign policy on issues that were of common concern because immediately after that I recognized Israel, knowing the feelings of the Islamic countries about Israel. I went ahead single-handedly to recognize Israel when everybody in the OAU went against it; we stuck to our gun; so if you accuse me of joining OIC, you must also accuse me of normalizing relations with Israel
We are in a situation in the country today where we have insurgents with a warped version of Islam which they claim they want to foist on the nation in some states. Do you think these sorts of decisions are the sort of things that plant seeds on the minds of some people claiming to want to promote one religion above another?
I’m glad you used the word ‘warped’. What is happening now is something that Nigerians should rise and fight against; Muslims should rise and fight against it because some people are spoiling the name of Islam, and this is not what Islam stands for.
Given the fact that we are a nation of different ethnicities, wouldn’t it have been better to pursue policies that would not divide us along religious lines – and this is even outside the Boko Haram insurgency?
I grew up here in Minna and there is where we call a mixed court where you find a Christian, a Muslim and an unbeliever, yet three of them will sit together to preside over cases which touch on traditions of the different groups and this we have been doing damn well. Everyone has a religion and you keep to it; even Islam frowns at imposition of the religion on others.
The question I’m driving at is that if, perhaps, we don’t pursue public policies that further strengthen the division that already exists, could we perhaps have had a better chance of making it as a nation and not one divided along ethnic and religious lines
My answer to that is yes.
So any regrets about taking Nigeria into the OIC?
No!
You don’t see that as a policy capable of further dividing us as a nation even though, by your own admission, Christians complained?
By your reaction, as a generation, it would be better not to toe those lines because they are very sensitive. It has been done before and the consequences were not so good for the country.
We had a civil war. Nobody would like to have a war again. The good thing is that from 1970 till today, I have never come across people who believe in the division of this country.
So, in your view, no regrets because we are learning from your mistakes?
The answer is yes!
What should we do about Boko Haram?
The first thing is that people must believe that this affects Nigeria generally and not just a part or just a religion. Like the civil war, the whole country was mobilized against secession and there was unity against he secession and I think we must accept that this problem is a Nigerian problem and everybody should come together to fight this phenomenon.
In practical terms, how do we begin to build unity so that Nigerians can see the problem as a Nigerian problem?
First of all, the leadership at all levels must be mobilized against Boko Haram. At the political level, people should watch what they say and the religious leaders also have a role to play just as the businessmen must be involved. Once Nigerians see that everyone is mobilized against the insurgency, no one would want to step out of line. Nigerians have to be mobilized and that would make it easier to win the war.
From a military point of view, are you surprised at the performance of our military against Boko Haram?
What you should be asking is that is this the same military of Nigeria that has been exceptional all over the world – in the Congo, Tanzania, UN operations, ECOWAS operations?
The question really is that by all accounts, the army you served in was a formidable army; so what did you people do that time that appears different from what is going on now?
When I was 22 as a 2nd Lieutenant, I had been told that I had no other country to die for except Nigeria, but now you’ve got 18 year olds or 19year olds or graduates asking ‘what is this Nigerianness they are talking about?’. They wouldn’t give a damn and, therefore, you have to do a re-orientation to bring this patriotism back.
Could it not be that some of us can say Nigeria had been good to us, so we had no option than to be committed. But you have the young ones today, say, of 30, who would be asking, ‘what the hell’ because they have had to fend for themselves one way or the other? They don’t see what the country has done for them. Shouldn’t government start by providing for the people and making them responsive to the needs of patriotism?
Government would have to take responsibility, I agree.
You’ve repeatedly denied having any knowledge of the murder of journalist Dele Giwa, but because you were the military head of state at that time and because your former press secretary, Debo Bashorun, alleged that you knew about it, many Nigerians are a bit skeptical about what you have said. Do you understand why they have been skeptical?
It is because they think I was the head of government at that time and I knew that anything that goes wrong they will like to blame it on somebody and the fact that everybody in the media said I knew about it never came to me as a surprise at all.
What about the role played by Major Bashorun, did that come as a surprise to you?
I stumble on the information in one of the papers that he wrote a book. But I have always maintained one thing: I know the young man very well but I don’t join issues with people to whom I am senior.
Was he upset with you and, therefore, would want to make you look bad?
That is his business, not mine.
At the time of Giwa’s death, did you order any investigations at all into the circumstances of the killing?
It could have been prejudicial because you guys in the media went to court and I couldn’t have ordered anything because the matter was already in the court. There were very good lawyers and activists pursuing that case; so we allowed the courts to try the case.
Aren’t you curious as to who killed Dele Giwa?
He was fortunate because he belonged to the journalism profession and the media kept the issue alive up till today. The issue of Dele Giwa, Alfred Rewane and Bola Ige would remain and people will like to pin it on somebody.
Is there any chance that some rogue elements in your government, without your knowledge, could have decided to teach Dele Giwa a lesson because he was critical of your administration?
I have maintained that I dominate my environment and my environment relates to the people I work with, people who work with me, people I relate to. I am fairly well-informed about things before they happen or immediately after they happen.
Do you have any regrets at all about your time in office?
I had a good time in office and would continue to be grateful to Nigerians for supporting me during that period and, if there is one thing I would have loved to do differently (not regretting), it would have been to make it constitutional that Nigeria should have a two-party state.
Why?
Because I believed then and I still believe now that it is the surest way of promoting the peace and stability of Nigeria and it worked. So, let’s institutionalise it. It’s just like the Land Use Act, it is in the Constitution. Some people may not like some aspects of it but it is there; so you have to work round it.
As a young soldier, did you ever envisage that your life would take the path it has taken?
As a young officer, my intention was maybe not the commander of a unit, so I was looking at the rank of a major or a Lt-Colonel, comparing the size of the Nigerian Army at that time.
But fate dealt you a different hand, how do you feel about that?
I feel gratified and I feel nice that while I planned, God had His own wish on His subjects.
You lost your long time companion and wife, Maryam, in December 2009. What has life been like without her?
She was a real companion who got to understand and accept me for what I am and tried to make the best of me and that is what I am missing. She was the one who would look at me and say ‘you’re wrong’ and I had to accept and bury my pride and I will say ‘sorry, you’re right’. That is the sort of counseling I am missing now.
How much time do you spend with the children and grand children to try and fill the vacuum that she’s left?
The children are doing very well and they have become a sort of friends to me. We sit down and talk and sometimes we disagree. My greatest source of pleasure now is seeing my grand children coming to me to say good night or when they return from school and they come to greet me. It reminded me of my time when I was growing up.
Many had thought that by now you would have re-married?
I will tell you an interesting story. There was a woman I was joking with and I said, ‘Okay, why don’t you marry me?’ and she said, ‘No I won’t’. And I asked her why? She said, ‘I am not sure I can spoil you the way your wife used to spoil you; so don’t put any idea into my head’.
Former military president, Gen. Ibrahim Babangida, on Monday declared his support for Gen. Mohammadu Buhari, the All Progressives Congress (APC) presidential candidate in the upcoming elections.
Buhari and IBB
Speaking while receiving Buhari who visited him in Minna, Babangida said ‘’all of us will support you in this course to salvage this country’’.
He said that the APC’s candidate’s doggedness in sacrificing to salvage Nigeria would not be lost.
“I wish to congratulate members of the party for the honour of nominating my colleague, Gen. Muhammadu Buhari, as your presidential candidate in 2015 elections’’.
He said that the he and Buhari fought the battle to keep Nigeria indivisible, adding that such traits were attributes of patriots.
Earlier, Buhari said that the APC would commence a salvation crusade in Niger, adding that the calibre of people in APC in the state was a testimony.
He thanked Babangida for the support and cameraderie he had enjoyed over the years and assured him that Nigeria was on the verge of change.
He said that APC was set to take over the state with the calibre of the candidates presented for various offices and the quality of those that decamped from the ruling PDP. (NAN)
Former Military President, Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida may go down in the history of Nigeria as the most loved yet most hated leader to ever rule Africa’s most populous nation. Such paradox marks him out as an intriguing personality, who remains a reference point in the political circle more than two decades after he ‘stepped aside’ from Aso Rock in controversial circumstances.
In this rare encounter with a team from Zero Tolerance (ZT), a quarterly magazine published by the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission, at his Hill Top mansion in Minna, Niger State, the former leader offers rare reminisces on his leadership of the country and attempts a prognosis on the myriad challenges facing Nigeria. He spoke about why he led a coup that toppled the regime of Muhammadu Buhari and why he approved the killing of his bosom friend, Mamman Vatsa.
The interview was conducted by the ZT team of WILSON UWUJAREN, TONY ORILADE, WILLIAMS OSEGHALE, AISHA MOHAMMED and FRANKLYN OGUNLEYE. We have the magazine’s permission to republish the interview here.
Excerpts:
Let us congratulate you on your 73rd birthday
Thank you for reminding me that I am an old man
At 73, do you feel accomplished?
First of all, I need to thank God for having attained this age, at remarkably good health still talking and moving. I remain grateful to God, brothers, friends, colleagues and Nigerians generally for all the goodwill.
Any regrets?
So far, the emphatic answer is, no!
Looking back in the last 73 years, what will you say has been your greatest achievement and contribution to this country?
Seriously speaking, my generation came at a time when Nigeria was just trying to be on its feet. I went into the military service in 1962, Nigeria was just about two years old and it had the problems of a developing nation, what they need to go through and so on. So, we were witnesses to this development and I think, one should be able to quantify his contributions based on that period, what we had been doing. I think it was very fulfilling and rewarding.
Why did you choose to go into the military at that time?
There was a drive to get students or people from this part of the country so as to balance the officer corps of the armed forces; so there was a deliberate drive to recruit officers from this part of the country and I was fortunate that the minister for the army happened to be from this part of the country. So one of his first recruitment drives was to come to our school; he talked to us and gave reasons why we should join the military. Then, we saw some demonstration by General Yakubu Gowon; he was a captain at that time, a lot of us got excited. We applied and were recruited.
If not the military, where else would you have been?
My original thought was to be a civil engineer but when this military thing came, I jettisoned that and went in for the military.
EFCC is eleven years old now, what is your assessment of the Commission?
Well, I think EFCC has done remarkably well because it came at a time when this country needed an organization that should check the scourge of corruption and the rest of it. I think it came at the right time. I took quite an interest to know how the Commission operates, especially under the present leadership. I believe they are achieving good result. I was reading in the media some of the prosecutions and convictions recorded and I think I am impressed as they have been doing everything in accordance with the law.
Like everything new, the Commission experienced some teething problems. First of all, the public needed to understand what it was trying to do but I understand what the Commission is doing now. It is very civil, you don’t condemn people, you investigate, you establish facts and so on. This is what is happening now and I think the fact that anybody is innocent until proven guilty is what you are doing now. I think this is good for this country.
Despite all the efforts, Nigeria continues to be ranked as one of the most corrupt countries, what will you say is responsible for the high level of corruption in this country?
The fact that the corruption index says Nigeria is highly corrupt is quite subjective. A lot of us have had lots of experience in other countries; generally every country has the problem of corruption in various forms. I think what we need to do is to do the little we did when we were in office, try to find out the source of corruption and then block it.
Back in 1986, Cooperative Boards as we knew them then was an institution bedeviled by corrupt practices. An ordinary farmer brings his products, the board is there to assess it as either grade one ,two or three. A lot of things went wrong, so what we did was to encourage the farmer to go to the end users, negotiate. The end user will also inspect what you have. So the farmer is talking to you directly, no middle man or anything because the corruption starts where the middle man is.
Once you have identified areas that are prone to corruption, the next thing is to eliminate them and get the people educated. In the case of foreign exchange for example, you needed to go to the Central Bank or to the banks before you could get foreign currencies but by establishing the bureau de change, you could walk in there, exchange the money and put it in your pocket, go on with your business and you are not robbing anybody.
One of the things to avoid, especially in government institutions, is too much control, where there is a lot of control corruption easily manifest itself. So you look at where there is a lot of control, try to do away with it and then things will work for the people.
The military regimes before you, Murtala Mohammed/Olusegun Obasanjo and General MuhammaduBuhari/Tunde Idiagbon had programmes that frontally tackled corruption. Will you say your government fought corruption?
Well, we had different approaches; I think my government was able to identify corruption prone areas and checked them. If you remember in this country, there were things they call essential commodities. These are also sources of corruption; you go and buy omo or food or whatever it is and we got government to take its hands off such activitie. Let people use their own brains, hands and labour, nobody has to do it for them. So we did but I am proud to say that was much more effective.
I don’t have the facts but if what I read in the papers is currently what is happening then I think we were angels.
I asked that question against the background that during the Buhari administration, there was War Against Indiscipline, you didn’t have a programme like that. You came in and the programme died as it were. Why didn’t you put up something similar to deal with corruption, knowing that corruption was very prevalent?
Because I was learning from the mistake of those before me. If you take for example the War Against Indiscipline, they were teaching you how to queue, to say sorry when you march somebody! It hasn’t solved anything. It was trying to make you to be civil in your approach to things. Ok I accepted I am going to queue before I get into a car but I might have bribed somebody before I got a ticket to go into the vehicle. We tried not to fall into the same trap, by tackling the source and making corrections in those places.
You described yourself as an angel when you ruled this country. Sadly people tend to remember your regime as institutionalizing corruption in Nigeria.
Yeah, I know. Maybe I have to accept that but anybody with a sense of fairness has no option but to call us saints. I give you example, in a year I was making less than seven billion dollars in oil revenue, In the same period there are governments that are making 200 to 300 billion dollars. With seven billion, I did the little I could achieve; with 200 billion there is still a lot to be achieved.
You are not looking at the benchmark, what was the value of naira to the dollar then and what is it today?
When I left office, it was 22 naira to the dollar Now it is 162 and is not my making, I left it at 22, official rate.
When you came into office, the naira and the dollar were almost at par, so what happened that triggered the massive devaluation of the naira under your watch?
The world is changing economically and if you want to compete with the industries around the world, you have to moderate your currency and what we did was in accordance with the development in the world at that time. The first time when it became one dollar to four naira, we almost went crazy, all of us in the military but then we were learning. Our economy should not be oblivious of what is happening in the outside world and we wanted to compete effectively with other countries.
All the same, we were able to keep it down to 22. When I left, it went up to 85. Abacha was good; he kept it between 85 and 90.
In terms of accounting for resource earnings, we can remember that during your regime, there was also this gulf war and Nigeria earned a lot of money. What happened to the gulf war oil windfall?
First of all, that war lasted 3 months, about ninety something days; it didn’t last up to a year. So get that fact straight. Secondly, the oil price at that time was below 18 dollars per barrel, so there is no way you could make 12.4 billion in 3 months. We couldn’t have made that amount of money but Pius Okigbo knew what he was doing. He had brains and he said between 1986 or 1988 to 1994, monies that accrued to the federal government at that time was about that money you are calling, windfall. He said so. It is there in his book. Then the other thing he said, the monies could have gone into generative investment, I am not an economist but I have an understanding of what this is. Our argument then was if you have the money why keep it and be looking at it when you have a lot of things that will benefit the ordinary man. So that money was not stolen.
Where is it?
It is what you see now in the country, Thank God most of the infrastructures we put in place are what you are using today and proudly so.
What are these infrastructures you are talking about?
Abuja for example, I built Abuja. Today we have a brand new capital, we used that money. I gave you a Third Mainland Bridge, Lagos, you cannot build it now for all the money Nigeria is making. And what did it cost me? 500. 600, 700 million naira. For the first time, a dual carriage way was seen in the northern part of the country between Kaduna and Kano and then linked it up from Abuja. You cannot afford to do it now, you cannot even afford to touch it because there are a lot of competing needs. You have to put money in education, armed forces infrastructural development, you have to put money in transportation; there are a lot of competing demands.
You talked about Abuja being a brand new city, surprisingly the city is perhaps the only modern capital without a rail transport system. How come you never thought of building a rail system or was it not part of the master plan?
You have got good roads. But the advantages of the rail over road is quite obvious as it is cheaper and can move more people per time. The first standard gauge railway was established during our regime. If you ever travel, just go to a place called Itakpe, there is a rail track linking it to Delta. It is a standard gauge railway. So we put these things where we thought the country will benefit from it.
If as you said, you did so well, why then is the perception that your government and your person are the most corrupt in Nigeria?
Well, you gladly use the word perception, and it is said that perception is not reality.
Why the perception?
I should ask you, because it is the perception of the media.
Are you worried?
No, and you know why? Because now a lot of people can reflect; you believed quite wrongly that we are all crooks and I bear no grudge whatsoever against anybody but I know time will come when they will say after all, they did something and this is what is happening. Now, even our fiercest critics give us credit for certain things we did.
You are regarded as one of the wealthiest Nigerians living, how did you make your money?
Well, that is if you believe I have the money.
This is not a perception
If you give me some facts, throw it and say this is it then I have cause to explain. But I know who I am and what I represent, I know what values I stand for. A lot of us will not make such stupid mistakes.
What are the investments of IBB?
Let me tell you something, maybe you have a hand in it, I have been the most investigated president Nigeria has ever had. By now somebody should have come forward to say here it is. Every government that came after me investigated me because of that perception. Because they wanted to retrieve the billions I stole. Unless you can tell me that you haven’t been very efficient in your investigation, that’s your problem and not mine.
We interviewed General Olusegun Obasanjo and asked him how he makes his money and he told us that he is a big time farmer. In your case, what do you do, how do you earn your money?
My pension (Laughs…)
What is your worth?
It is difficult, worth in terms of? Naira and Kobo
I wish I could have shown you my bank account, My account officer just left. I would be ashamed to say it so I won’t say it.
What are your investments, what do you do?Are you into telecoms?
No. The issue that I have stake in a telecom company has been laid to rest for a long time. Globacom issued a statement, nothing of that nature. Agreed they are good and doing well. I am proud that they came up during our time but I am fairly an arrogant man, I don’t plead. If you are good and it is good for us, we say go ahead and do it. So, no Globacom, no petroleum industry and I am not a farmer because I can’t farm.
You have Heritage Press
Yeah, it hasn’t been working very well yet.
Are we to assume that outside government you are not productive? Then how do you get by?
(Laughs), it doesn’t mean that I am not making money. Of course I have investments, no doubt about that.
What are these investments?
I would assure you using my head, I came to one conclusion that the best investment for someone like me is banking, that’s all
You have shares in banks?
Yes.
How many banks
No, in one bank.
A major shareholder?
Yes.
Which bank are we talking of …
(cuts in) ..Again investigate…laughs
We have observed a trend, most Nigeria leaders come into office not comfortable financially but by the time they are leaving, they become billionaires. Why is it so?
Now you said most, let me tell you on my own. When I got into office August of 1985 I made a declaration and it is there on record what I had, what I possessed, everything and when I left not much have changed. Before I became president I was living in this environment, nobody seems to remember that. I tried farming before I became president. I failed. That’s why I said am not going into that field anymore. So it depends, I am not also sure that every president has left office rich. I know they are not.
Apart from Generals Yakubu Gowon, Mohammadu Buhari and may be Shehu Shagari, some people say every other president left richer
No. This is perception. Everyone went there, served and left. I wouldn’t say they left there richer than they were when they came in.
We really wouldn’t want to talk about the dead but is Abacha among the leaders you claim did not make money
(cuts in)…ok talk about the living, talk about me.
The circumstances surrounding your emergence as military president in 1985, some people believe that it was more of self-preservation than national interest. Can you tell us what happened?
First of all, we planned a coup towards the end of 1983 that truncated the democratically elected government and the military government came in January 1984. Then that government also suffered the same fate as the democratic government when the military staged one of the finest coup in this country, because there was no blood, nothing was lost, smooth and everybody was treated with the most civility and our administration came. When we came in August of 1985 there was a plan to kick us out in December 1985, it didn’t work, they went into operation again in 1990. I think the country was going through a phase at that time, it’s a developing country and we always had one reason or the other for doing what we did at that time.
But the talk at that time was that there was a rift between you and Buhari and he wanted to dismiss you from the Army.
No, let me give you a lesson today. A coup or change comes about if there is frustration in the society. Just get that right. There was frustration in the society between 1984 to 1985. The ground was fertile for a coup. It wasn’t fertile, thanks be to God, in December, 1985 when the first attempt on me was made. Neither was it fertile in April 1990 when the second attempt was made and we had the support of all of you sitting down here. You write, you analyze, you talk, and you demonstrated. It was not unusual then to hear, in the case of the democratically elected government in1983, a common phase was ‘the worst military regime is better than this government’. So you were giving us the impetus to stage a coup. We are not dummies. If we didn’t have the support of all of you, we wouldn’t venture into it.
We cannot end this interview without talking about June 12…
Yes, it is a day in the history of Nigeria and the day the most credible election was held, so what is your question.
Why was it annulled?
We gave you a lot of reasons but I understood the passion, at that time everybody was fed up. The sentiment was, ‘just pack your things and go’. Our thought process is very limited. First of all, on June 23, 1993, I was on the air, and I told Nigerians why we had to do what we did. But I was sensible enough to know that whatever I said nobody was interested. So the important thing is ‘get out’. I hate to say it but when we annulled June 12, the same Nigerians supported the intervention of the Military. True or false?
True because you saw it, you are old enough. All those who fought for June 12 ended up serving the Military Government they didn’t like and that perpetuated a longer stay of the military in government.
When you were leaving government you used the phrase ‘stepping aside.’ Why did you choose to use that phase?
Every one of you thought that I was not keeping pace with the Nigerian dream. We have a tradition in the military, if you are marching in a column, when they say left, you should obey the command. If you right foot, somebody will shout at you because you are affecting the column, you should step aside so that the column will continue. That was what I did.
What’s your philosophy in life?
To be at peace with myself and other human beings.
And your values …
Oh that one is a lot. I told you earlier when we were talking about the stupendous wealth, I told you I know who I am , I know what I represent , I know my background so there are things I wouldn’t do.
What are these things?
(Laughs), I wouldn’t steal and I don’t have business to fight you even if you are abusing me. This is still part of what I believe in. I will always forgive you because if we offend God he forgives, so why should I hold anything against anybody
Why then was it difficult to forgive your bosom friend, late General Mamman Vatsa?
Because others before him faced the same law, the only change in that law was introduced by us to give room for appeal. If i was involved in that coup and it flopped, I would have been shot too. So it is the application of the law but then it is painful. We made the law others suffered the consequences.
As military president, you had the power to commute the death sentence to jail term
But all those that were shot dead, were shot under a military regime.
You have a beautiful mansion here; anybody would like to live in this kind of house. We understand that it is a souvenir from a contractor
Whoever that contractor is, I think he should have gone to jail, to give this as a souvenir. I told you I was living in this environment before I became the president. I built a house here when I was Chief of Army Staff. If I open the window for you, you will see a very beautiful house just behind us, that is where I started and then kept on moving up to this place.
But you got this place after you left office?
I started building it in 1991, took 2 to 3years so that by the time I finished I would have a house to sleep in.
What is the value of the property?
Now, or then?
Now
I cannot estimate because it has appreciated.
Then
I know what my friends spent
Your friends built it for you?
No, my friends contributed.
You have good friends..
Yes I have
Were they your friends before you went into government?
They were friends before we came into government and friends while I was in government.
President Goodluck Jonathan Saturday visited former President Ibrahim Babangida in Minna in what the President said was to appreciate the former military President and consult with him after his recent medical trip abroad.
IBB and Jonathan
Gen. Babangida who emerged from the closed door meeting with Jonathan urged all Nigerians, who mean well for the country, to support the President.
In an interview with journalists after the closed door meeting, President Jonathan said the meeting was to seek his input as a former leader on how to solve the myriads of problems confronting the country.
He said: “First and foremost, I have to use this opportunity to appreciate our leader, President Babangida for his leadership. His commitment to ensuring that this country is united and we live in peace.
“Of course, you know that this is the end of the year. Within this period, people pay visits. So I have come to visit him. You know he just came back from a hospital abroad, not too long ago. Since he came back, we have not seen. I need to see my father to know how he is feeling. I am quite pleased the way I have seen him.
“Of course, you all know that as a nation, we are facing challenges: security challenges all over, not just in the North. Yes, Boko Haram in the North. The South is not safe: commercial kidnapping and robbery.
“He is one of our experienced leaders. As somebody who is sitting where he was before, I need to see them from time to time to listen to their suggestions. That is one of the areas how we can collectively move the country forward and ensure that Nigerians live in peace.
“That is the key thing and I am quite pleased that we had a fruitful discussion” the president said.
Also speaking, the former head of State, General Ibrahim Babangida said the president means well for this country and every Nigerian who means well for the country should support him.
According to General Babangida, “what I will say is simple: The President means well for this country and he is working well for this country. Anybody who means well for this country should support the President to make sure that Nigeria survives as a united country”.
The President was accompanied on the tripthy the National Security Adviser, Col. Sambo Dasuki (rtd.); his Chief of Staff, Gen. Jones Arogbofa (rtd.); Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, Senator Bala Muhammed; former Governor Peter Obi and Senator Ahmadu Ali among others.
President Goodluck Jonathan on Saturday visited a former military Head of State, Gen. Ibrahim Babangida, at his Hilltop Mansion in Minna, Niger State.
President Jonathan
Jonathan who was accompanied on the visit by the National Security Adviser, Col. Sambo Dasuki (retd.); his Chief of Staff, Gen. Jones Arogbofa (retd.); Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, Senator Bala Muhammed; and the Director-General of his campaign team, Ahmadu Ali, met behind closed-door with the military dictator.
He later told journalists that he was in Minna to greet “his father” who recently returned to the country from a medical trip abroad.
Babangida also told journalists that all Nigerians must support Jonathan because he means well for the country.
Former Head of State, Muhammadu Buhari has stated that he was aware that Ibrahim Babangida was planning to overthrow him in 1985.
Buhari
Buhari, a retired major general and presidential aspirant on the platform of All Progressives Congress (APC), told TheCable: “It is true that I learnt he was planning a coup against me. And I sat and discussed it with him in my office.
“He brought the news that he went to Kano and people complained that I pulled a pistol during a council meeting. I said Ibro ? I called him Ibro because I was just senior to him by a few months ? I said whoever wants to sit on this chair let him come and sit here. And he decided to do it.”
Reminded that the punishment for coup making was death and he could have put Babangida on trial, Buhari told TheCable: “Yes. Remember how many people he killed subsequently for trying to overthrow him? But when I came in, there was no bloodshed. I think a couple of policemen were killed and [Brigadier Ibrahim] Bako also died in an ambush.
“But deliberately, nobody was killed. I was in the front, the real front in the Nigerian civil war. I had seen enough of death and I know what God means by human life. Any human being, God values their life. And anybody who hopes to meet God, he should be careful about killing.
“When there is law and due process of law took place, the question is clear. Like the cocaine convicts that were executed, the decision was taken in supreme military council.”
President Goodluck Jonathan is currently presiding over a meeting of the Council of State at the Presidential Villa, Abuja.
The meeting which started at about 11:40am had in attendance Vice President Namadi Sambo; President of the Senate, David Mark; Speaker of the House of Representatives, Aminu Tambuwal; former President Olusegun Obasanjo, former President Shehu Shagari and former Head of the Interim National Government, Ernest Shonekan.
Others are former military Heads of State, Yakubu Gowon; Abdusalam Abubakar and Ibrahim Babangida as well as some former Chief Justices of Nigeria and state governors.
Service Chiefs including the Inspector-General of Police, Muhammed Abubakar are waiting in the tea room of the Council Chamber venue of the meeting to brief them on security situation in the country.
Embattled Governor of Adamawa State, Murtala Nyako, is making a surprise appearance at the meeting.
Nyako is currently in the eye of the storm as the state House of Assembly has commenced impeachment process against him and his deputy, James Ngilari.
The meeting is still ongoing at the time of filing this report.
